Those In Glass Houses
Loki has done some really weird shit. Who even knows why he does the things he does? One time, he dressed up like a woman with Thor to help get back his hammer. Another time, he leashed a goat to his balls just to get a laugh out of a lady.
I’m just saying, if there’s a figure in mythology that should really avoid judging other people, it’s Loki.
This little scene is from a bit of Norse myth called Lokasenna, The Binding of Loki (Loki’s Flyting, Loki’s Quarrel). The story seems to be a late addition to Norse myth (or at the very least, one that was not very popular) and tells of the gods’ quarrel with Loki, the Sly One. In it, the gods assemble to discuss matters in their hall. Loki, hearing of the meeting, but not being invited himself, crashes the party and finds himself facing hostility. Loki decides to cause trouble and begins insulting the other gods who, in turn, insult him back. Loki mocks each god, including Odin, until Thor arrives. Thor, threatening to knock Loki’s head from his shoulders for being so insolent, is the only one that actually manages to shut Loki up. Knowing that Thor is the only one would actually follow through on his threat, Loki leaves the hall and disguises himself as a salmon living in a waterfall. The other gods catch him and punish him for his crimes and the problems he has caused them. The end result sees Loki bound to a boulder, a snake hanging above him with its fangs dripping venom onto his forehead. His wife, Sigyn, holds a basin above him, catching the venom before it reaches him, but when she goes to empty the dish, bits of poison reach Loki causing him to thrash violently, causing earthquakes. There he stays until Ragnarok when he will be released along with his monstrous children.
One of the most interesting bits of Lokasenna is where Loki insults Odin, questioning the honors he has bestowed on faint-hearted warriors and, more specifically, charging Odin with ergi for practicing seidhr, woman’s magic. The first interesting bit is that Loki clearly engages in a number of unmanly activities, what with him turning into a female horse and giving birth to a foal. In Lokasenna, Odin mentions another story (which is unattested in other sources) wherein Loki becomes a milkmaid and gives birth to human children. Seems a bit hypocritical to be calling other people unmanly when he’s so fond of taking the female form and having children, but hey I guess it takes one to know one.
The second interesting thing is that there are stories about the chief of the Norse gods being labeled ergi, a pretty substantial charge as we discussed in the last blog post. There are a few possibilities as to why this even occurs. The first being that Odin was the chief of the gods, but not necessarily the most popular. Odin was a god to be respected and feared, the lord of death and war, but also of poetry and magic. You would respect Odin, but you wouldn’t necessarily invite him over for tea. By contrast, it’s likely that Thor was immensely popular with the common people (though I suppose you wouldn’t invite him to tea either). Where Odin is shrouded in mystery and a little bit of fear, Thor represents everything that is Norse. He is strong, manly, powerful. Stories about him can be funny, but they mostly depict him as a heroic figure to be loved and respected.
It’s also possible that Odin, being a figure of magic, is simply associated with all types of sorcery. Men’s magic, the magic of the runes, words, and poetry, is clearly the primary domain of Odin, but he is also capable of prophecy, has vast stores of hidden knowledge, wields magical weapons and possesses magical items, and is known to practice the little understood craft of Seidhr.
Ultimately, it’s probably a bit of both.
Whatever mysteries surround the subject of Norse mythology, one thing is abundantly clear:
Loki is absolutely ridiculous.
Didn’t he also give birth to Hel?
Hel is his daughter, but he didn’t give birth to her. He had sex with the giantess, Angrboda and she gave birth to Hel!
Oh my Loki!
Jeesh dude…
(good to know though that such things weren’t just in Greek & Roman mythology though)
Odd though that I hadn’t heard of this tale before… hmm.
Though this makes perfect sense and fits with the part about Ragnarök (Fenrir’s story)… I also think this tale is perhaps a slight point that there is no such delineation between “men’s work” and “woman’s work”.. or rather that both genders can do the other’s work pretty easily.
Anyways, interesting tale that I’ll have to read up on some time.
Wasn’t Odin also a practician of “woman’s magic”? Or did I get my facts mixed again?
That is what the comic and post are about!
This makes that anime about Loki all the more twisted and f**ked up. 😛
Anime about Loki?!
Any memory/idea of the name of it?
…. I’m intrigued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Detective_Loki_Ragnarok
Its a comedy though, not an epic battle.
Loki is banished to Earth by Odin, he is stuck in a kid’s body.
Meanwhile Odin sends their entire Parthenon against him.
I liked it a lot, but again, do not expect Saint Seiya or something. 😛
I’ve seen an anime about Nyarlathotep…but not Loki…I am intrigueified….
Here, for you too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Detective_Loki_Ragnarok
Hows the Nyarlathotep one? I found out about it when debating with a friend thats a fan of Lovecraft’s Mythos, to prove her anime knew no bounds. I obviously won. XD
Loki’s anime is comedic, but great imo.
As said to the other person asking, its fun unless you go in expecting an epic battle show or something.
Loki is banished to Earth by Odin, he is stuck in a kid’s body.
Meanwhile Odin sends their entire Parthenon against him.
It DOES take a turn for the better if you know your Norse mythology, which I now know. 😛
Oh it’s rediculously bad…Nyarlathotep is a space-cop assigned to earth because aliens like to bootleg human media (and sometimes humans) to sell on the black market. Cthulhu is a Pan-galactic Videogame company that has been secretly using humans as test-subjects. …and it gets weird from there.
That sounds awesome. XD
I love insane stuff like that. I cannot even imagine how much more insane it must be for someone that is a fan of Lovecraft’s. 😛
Loki’s is not that mad compared, it still has the norse gods in their proper roles, but it is still a comedy/drama.
Of course Loki is also the Deceiver of the Gods.
Well, if it’s a late story as you say, it could be Christian propaganda.
Mormons going door to door convincing people to move away from badassery by claiming those gods are unmanly?
I could see it happening.
Wait, I’ve tripped myself up with the number of Christianity variations. Is Mormon accurate or is it Jehovah Witness?
More likely WTBTS (Jesus=Mike). but LDS (Jesus=Son of God) is possible too.
Speaking about Mormons and manliness, this seem to be the definite lines:
What makes a man, is it the woman in his arms?
just cause she has big titties?
Or is it the way, he fights every day?
No, it’s probably the titties.
The idea of Odin practicing wierder and effeminite forms of Magic seems to blend well with my image of him though.
In a lot of tales, he was always sort of mysterious and tricky, though mostly benevolant [I’ve read somewhere that Loki might be a later addition to Norse Mythology taking over the bits where Odin was even more trickstery and less leader like].
So dipping into Feminine magic gives him a bit more of a menancing mysterious air in some ways; look no further than the slightly effeminite villains and wildcards to see how even these days people are a unnerved by this sort of thing. It seems to be used to add a layer of shiftiness to them since people percieve them as less straight forward than “manly” characters.
It also goes along with Odin being knowledge hungry above all else, he doesn’t seem the type to turn his nose up at “girly” or other kinds of undignified kinds of magic and knowledge.
So if it’s a late addition, I feel like it was something done to add an air of mystique and distance to an already somewhat omnious figure rather than the addition of a missionary to defame him [To my knowledge, later Christianized Writers prefered to view Odin as a Jesus/God Analogue and played up his sacrifice on the world tree, giving Loki short end of the stick by playing him up as a Demonic figure. Ironic given the Loki=Odin Aspect theory, really.]
To expand on your discussion of Loki being an Odin aspect, there’s actually a good bit of evidence that Odin/Wodan/Wotanaz was not originally the top dog, but an outside force more similar to Loki altogether. I believe it was Tyr who was the original leader of the gods, but cultural co-mingling (evidenced in the mythology as the Aesir/Vanir war) eventually brought separate pantheons together.
And then, of course, the Romans had to stick their fingers in things, and “help” the Norse see Odin as a softer and more fatherly god, while his son Baldr was altered to have more clearly Christ-like imagery.
In Loki’s defence, he actually mentioned the Ergi in response to Odin mentioning he’s gave birth as a woman which kicked off because the Gods all decided to have a Party and “forget” to invite Loki.
So it’s less “Hey everyone! Odin isn’t manly!” and was more “Yeah, well I might have given birth but since when were you the authority on Manhood with your Girly Magic?”
It’s a wierd argument in that way, since to my [admittedly sketchy] knowledge, the Ergi magic demanded one be the passive partner in intercourse so the argument in my mind amounts to;
“You slept with a guy/male horse and gave birth!”
“Yeah, well, at least slept with a guy in girl form.”
That said, the comic was hilarious and this is nitpicking I only remembered afterwards when skimming over to remember all of Loki’s kids because the article made me curious.
youre right except for the part about seidr involving intercourse, it involves assuming a state of gender neutrality mentally and spiritually which is why it was seen as ergi
There’s so much we still don’t know about Viking life and culture. That’s oe of the reasons we need to research and develop time travel, people!
Hmm. Sad face. No updates in a while, I hope everything is alright K? :/
Loki’s a total weirdo. In an alternate universe, we would be friends!
WEIRDOS UNITE!!!!!